“We don’t know how people are going to react,” co-showrunner Shannon Burke says of [SPOILER]’s shocking death.

Warning: This article contains spoilers from the Outer Banks season 4, part 2 finale.

The Pogues aren’t invincible after all.

After four seasons of surviving the impossible — from intense chases and daring rescues to increasingly life-or-death fist and gun fights, all in the name of treasure — the Outer Banks teens finally lost one of their own.

The feature-length season 4, part 2 finale, “The Blue Crown,” did the unthinkable by killing JJ (Rudy Pankow) in brutal fashion. His death was made all the more devastating because he found the fabled Blue Crown from Blackbeard’s treasure and willingly gave it up to his evil biological father Chandler Groff (J. Anthony Crane) to save his girlfriend Kiara’s (Madison Bailey) life. And JJ even did it with a smile! But Groff stabbed his son anyway out of spite, cementing his status as one of the worst TV villains of the year.

Rudy Pankow, Tony Crane. 

“We don’t know how people are going to react,” Outer Banks co-showrunner Shannon Burke tells Entertainment Weekly. “He is one of or maybe the most beloved character, so it makes it the most painful and the most emotional, but also it makes sense given who JJ is and the risks he’s been taking. We had been coming to this moment for a long time but even when we see it, we’re like, ‘Oh my god.’ It’s really surprising.”

Elsewhere in the action-packed finale, the Pogues begrudgingly teamed up with Rafe (Drew Starkey), and he finally made peace with his sister Sarah (Madelyn Cline) — who had just discovered she was pregnant (great timing!). The Pogues and Rafe were ultimately left stranded in Morocco without the crown, mourning the loss of their friend, and Pope (Jonathan Daviss) was reeling after he killed Lightner (Rigo Sanchez) to save Cleo (Carlacia Grant). By the end of the finale, John B (Chase Stokes) and Kiara convinced the Pogues and Rafe to follow Groff to Lisbon, get the crown back at all costs, and get revenge — because that’s what JJ would have wanted.

Below, the Outer Banks co-showrunner explains why JJ had to die, if he’ll return for the fifth and final season in any way, and more.

Jonathan Daviss, Chase Stokes, Carlacia Grant, Madelyn Cline, Madison Bailey, Rudy Pankow. 

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Why did you kill JJ?! 

SHANNON BURKE: It was something we always knew we were going to do. We knew a long time ago — it was his whole arc, he begins as this kid with this abusive past with his father but he’s really giving, he’s the sort of person who just does crazy things like steals $30,000 from a drug dealer and then buys a hot tub for his friends with the money. As it goes on, he goes more off the rails, but also is more giving. That’s the yin and yang to his character. The arc of this season was beginning with him losing all the gold and in the end, making the ultimate sacrifice. We had been planning this for a long time and at some point, we realized we were going to play this card this year.

His death hurts even more because he gave up the crown to save Kiara, and chose a life of love instead of treasure, and he seemed to be at peace with that decision. And then Groff stabbed him anyway! 

It’s definitely by design. Groff is just bad. He didn’t have to do it but he felt slighted [by JJ leaving him in the well] so he did do it. He’s our villain… He’s like the bad version of JJ. I was laughing with Tony [who plays Groff] about that, saying, “You’re going to get a lot of hate really soon.” I’ve seen it probably hundreds of times and I flinch every time. I watched it again last night, I don’t know why, I just turned it on and watched the last 10 minutes again, and I flinched. I know it’s coming but the way it happens, it’s just so surprising.

It’s something that’s engineered to be gratuitous — Groff didn’t need to do it, JJ totally is at peace, that’s the intent. He’s gotten past this. He’s been in a bad place and has been spinning for a lot of the season. A lot of viewers are frustrated with JJ because he’s just making bad choices that are affecting the group, and he makes up for a lot of that in episode 9. And you feel when he comes back [after saving Sarah] that he’s in a better place and that there’s a long and bright future with him and Kiara, so it makes it extra tragic, what happens.

Pollyanna McIntosh, Rigo Sanchez. 

You said that this was planned since the beginning of the series, but with how beloved this character has become over the past four seasons, did you ever consider changing the story and not killing him?

100 percent. It’s really scary. We had talked about, “One of the Pogues is probably going to have to die,” and Rudy seemed really excited that it would be him. We all thought it would probably be JJ, and as you’re going along, it seems like it would happen to him because he takes so many risks and it’s set up in the story as logical and also terribly emotional. As we got closer to the moment, it was scary and we weren’t sure — we were definitely questioning if we were going to do this. We were really hesitant and we weren’t sure it was going to work, but everybody did their best work for it and I think it’s really effective and in the end, it makes a good story. But we were incredibly uncertain about doing it until the last minute.

But it really did feel as if the story was moving in that direction, and for the overall idea of the whole series, you begin with four kids who only want to have a good time all the time, and you drag them into a lot of stuff that isn’t that [fun]. That’s part of growing up, and that was the idea. We second-guessed ourselves as we got closer, and on the day of the filming of that, I thought they all did such a great job. Everyone was crying on set. Maddie was great, Rudy was great, and Tony was so evil. They all brought their A game, and it breaks my heart every time I see it. When we saw it filmed, that’s when we were like, “Oh, this is going to work.” We cry every time we see it. It’s just heartbreaking.

Madelyn Cline, Carlacia Grant, Madison Bailey, Chase Stokes, Jonathan Daviss. 

You said Rudy was excited about this — when did he learn about JJ’s fate?

I can’t remember exactly when it was. We had talked to him about the possibility of this, and it must have been years ago, as in, “This might happen,” and he seemed excited about it. The specific news of, “You’re going to die in this episode,” I think it was just in the normal [time] of [getting] the scripts. And he had a lot of ideas — there are lines in there that are from him saying, “JJ would say this.” Like, “Take care of all of them.” And in the scene on the pier when Kiara says, “I love you,” and JJ doesn’t say it back, that was by design because he says it at the end. Rudy really quickly got excited and was like, “This is going to be really great, I know how to make this good.” He breaks my heart every time I see that, just how accepting he is so quickly at the end, saying, “Take care of the group,” thinking about the others.

Will Rudy still return for the final season in any capacity, like flashbacks?

That’s a great question — maybe? [Laughs] I wouldn’t put it out of the realm of possibility. I wouldn’t say for sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened.

Rudy Pankow. 

What can you tease about how JJ’s death is going to affect the Pogues heading into the final season?

This is going to be the main story for the rest of season 5 — it’s going to be the emotional spine. It’s not something you get over in a day or an episode. It’s something that is going to affect them and it’s going to be the emotional center of the rest of the series. Mourning is just a tiny piece of it, but they all will be dealing with this gap in their friendship and how it affects them.

Drew Starkey. 

Which character’s journey are you most excited to explore in the aftermath of losing JJ?

Kiara. What’s interesting about her is she’s this “save the turtles, save the dolphins” kind of person, and when you see her at the end of [season] 4, she definitely does not look that like anymore. She has turned into a different person and we’re excited for that and Maddie’s really excited for that. And for four years, we’ve all known what a good actor she is, and we feel like, out of all the people, she’s probably given the least and used her talents the least, but we’ve all known because we’ve seen how good she is, how consistent she is in every single take. She’s a great actor and we’re really so excited for her and it’s so deserving. She can really show what she can do.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Outer Banks season 4, part 2 is now streaming on Netflix.