The Walking Dead universe never fails to show off its darkest side.

Major spoilers below for anyone who hasn’t yet watched The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live’s season finale on AMC or with an AMC+ subscription.

I can only hope that most, if not all, of the Walking Dead fanbase was collectively cooing by the end of the season finale for The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live. It wrapped not with cliffhanger stress, but with the comfort of family reunions and the promise of a better future. Technically, that’s close to how Episode 4 ended, and things didn’t go well right after. But before any of those joyful feelings sprouted up, one particular scene dropped a doozy of a detail that has taken up space in my brain.

The moment in question took place during the already bothersome conversation between Terry O’Quinn’s rarely seen General Beale and Andrew Lincoln’s Rick, who was basically forced to sit and listen to the CRM boss’ measured tone as he confessed to deadly acts as atrocious as those committed by anyone else in this franchise. In a sense, Beale was guilty of dropping Negan’s bat down upon the heads of thousands and thousands of survivors,, for the sake of eliminating any communities whose size could potentially overtake the Civic Republic Military. And the fact that he shared all this information without a blinking second thought is unnerving.

However, I found myself most bothered after the fact by Beale’s blasé admission detailing how many times he’d had that exact same conversation, noted as being the Echelon Briefing, with others climbing the ladder of the CRM. Here’s how he put it: